These are generally safe to use but will leave a nasty bruise or blood blister on the skin if a person is shot with them. 6-1-58: WEAPONS, DISCHARGE:It shall be unlawful for any person to discharge any weapon, air gun, sparrow gun, flipper, firearm or any similar device or contrivance within the limits of the City. Many felons feel it is imperative to defend themselves. Manage Settings Make sure that you follow the law to the letter and go down all the correct rabbit holes to be in compliance with the law. Its speed is relatively slower in comparison to the conventional gun, which makes use of a propellant. If used as a weapon it is illegal and the charges are no different than using a real gun including felon in possession of a firearm though its an airgun!I contacted the US Attorneys office and the Assistant US Attorney said that the 1986 firearms act is actually an addendum to the 2nd Amendment and no state has a right to overrule any of the bill of rights. Back in 2012, I was pulled over and had a compound bow in my vehicle. The projective travels far making it a great alternative for felons who want to get into hunting. 9.20.010: DISCHARGING FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS PROHIBITED:A. It might be called a pellet gun, but it might not be considered a prohibited gun for felons. 3, 11-24-1890; amd. section 18 - 310 paragraph 2 any felon not convicted of a sexual, violence or robbery charge and satisfies his completion date automatically has full rights instated as a citizen including guns Rights. 2277, 7-17-1989), 5-2-1: FIREARMS:No person shall carry, use for amusement or otherwise, or fire or discharge any air gun, pellet gun, spring gun or firearm of any kind or nature whatsoever within the city. Many felons have owned BB guns without getting into trouble. Both are pneumatic weapons meaning theyre using air to fire. A background check is required to be completed by a federally licensed firearms dealer for anyone who doesn't have an Arkansas Firearm Permit. Every day Im scared to be seen with it. 2009 Code). This section shall not apply to any person in possession of any weapon in his private dwelling or place of business. (Ord. In general, these weapons fire BBs or lead pellets. Under federal law, the maximum sentence for a felon in possession of a firearm is 10 to 15 years. They can also search the internet for more details on selecting a reputed and renowned attorney in their locality. Possession Unlawful: It shall be unlawful for any person to have in his possession or to have in any vehicle at a point within one thousand feet (1,000) of a parade or public assembly, or within one thousand feet (1,000) of the perimeter of a parade or public assembly from the beginning to the end of the route, in the case of a moving parade or public assembly any weapon. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. Therefore, you have to be cautious when using them. What Happens If A Convicted Felon Is Caught With A Gun. Prohibited Conduct: Except for law enforcement officers in the performance of their duties, it shall be unlawful for any person to discharge any rifle, shotgun, handgun, firearm, pellet gun, bow, crossbow, sling, blowgun, air gun, or BB gun within the city limits. 9-3-4: OFFENSES CONCERNING FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS:A. Discharging Firearms: Any person, not an officer, discharging any firearms within the City shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished by a fine as set out in Section 1-4-1 of this City Code. In addition, you can only use a rifle with a caliber of between .17 and .22. A firearm makes use of burning powder to assist the firing of the bullet. According to federal law, a firearm is any weapon or starter gun that is designed or can be readily converted to dispense a projectile using explosives. One way is to switch to a different weapon. Public Records Request: P: 208-334-2475 the guns are electric, compressed gas or use a spring. Below are the laws and ordinances concerning airguns, BB guns, pellet guns and airsoft guns for the local jurisdictions in the state of Idaho: No Air gun laws or ordinances listed by County Code, firearms laws pertain also to air guns, however, you may wish to contact an attorney or State of Idaho legal branch to get more definitive answers to air-gun laws. Discharge Of Firearms: Any person who shall fire or discharge any gun, pistol, rifle or other firearm within the corporate limits of the city shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to penalty as provided in section 1-4-1 of this code; provided that, upon national holidays and other days of public celebration, the mayor and city council may permit such regulations as they deem best for the firing of other firearms.B. Answer (1 of 17): Yes. 3,529 satisfied customers. We earn from many different affiliate programs on qualifying purchases. They also cock and fire easily, typically requiring less force or muscle power to operate. The requirements of owning a pellet gun are slim since theyre not conventional firearms. 151, 2-1-1982, eff. and it is an air pistol. Finally, know what is behind and around your target to avoid hitting someone. Yes, a felon can own a pepper ball gun. As the pellet gun is a relatively safe tool, you should be able to use it without much worry. Although AirGunLaws.com makes every effort to verify that the information found on this website is correct, laws can change quickly. Residents must secure one to gain reciprocity in other states. Does a Criminal Background Check Affect Credit Score? However, consult legal aid in your area and make sure that the laws in your state or even county allow felons to use a pellet gun to make sure you dont accidentally re-offend. A felon's gun rights may be restored when the felony record is sealed or expunged. (3) Discharge Of Firearms Prohibited: It shall be unlawful for any person to discharge firearms of any kind or description within the limits of the municipality; provided, however, that this shall not apply to police officers in the discharge of their duties. 1198. Some felons will break the law by purchasing and owning a firearm anyway, but this is not a good idea. Making a fresh start is important however this needs to be done with caution. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. Convicted felons are prohibited from possessing firearms unless specifically pardoned by the Governor of Maine or granted a permit by the Maine Department of Public Safety. The velocity of the BB gun is lower in comparison to the pellet gun. As per the latest modifications in the set of rules for hunting license with an air gun, it is not imperative to get the permit for guns with a muzzle velocity of fewer than 20 joules. However, recent changes to the law no longer make it necessary to have a hunting license for any air gun that has a muzzle velocity of less than 20 joules. Browse our jobs, find one you like, and get back to work today. Im also a felon and single mom. Oregon (if it's been more than 15 years since your non-violent conviction, gun rights are automatically restored) Rhode Island. Is It Illegal To Put A Silencer On An Airgun. The speed of the projectile is much slower in a pellet gun than with a traditional gun that utilizes a propellant. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. Box 83720Boise, ID 83720-0054P: 208-334-2475TTY/TTD Call: 7-1-1 I told him I was only interested in airguns. Can Felons Hold Public Office? I have felonys in that are 20 plus years old and i got my. 4 Anyone who has a convicted felony history, owning or using a firearm is strictly prohibited. Any personviolating any of the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and shall, upon conviction thereof, be fined in any sum not exceeding one hundred dollars ($100.00). IT FIRES PEPPER SPRAY AND A FELON CAN NOT OWN OR LEGALLY POSSESS PEPPER SPRAY. This is the easiest way to tell if you are using a pellet gun instead of a BB gun. First, you should learn more about firearms. It has connectivity to propel the projectile. Your email address will not be published. 471 4, 1995). Read more: Can Felons Own A Muzzleloader? Regardless, youll have to be a certain age before you can buy pellet guns or pellet ammunition. You should also make sure that your pellet gun is capable of hunting animals failing to do so will mean that you might not get a license due to inadequate equipment. Because air guns are not standard guns or weapons, the laws to own one are different. It uses some type of explosive. Do You Have To Wear Orange When Hunting With An Airgun? (Ord. The information on this page should not constitute as legal advice. There are no federal air gun laws, though each state has its own statutes. 6-2-1: AIR GUNS, WEAPONS:(C) Unlawful Discharge Of Guns And Firecrackers: It shall be unlawful for any person to fire or discharge any cannon, gun, fowling piece, pistol or firearm of any description(1958 Code, ch. Any campers, mobile homes or trailers lawfully parked on private property within one thousand feet (1,000) of the parade or public assembly site shall also be excluded. But this entirely depends on which state you come from although many states still allow felons to hunt with air rifles. As per the Gun Control Act, a felon cannot use a firearm under any circumstances. If you want to fire a rifle or handgun, your property must be significantly bigger. If Im going to be prosecuted for my natural born life for a long ago mistake its definitely against my civil rights I cant get a decent job I cant get into the better housing. i have felonys in washington that are 20 plus years old for checks and i got my gun rights fully restored but idaho dosent honor that since i live here read more. A pellet gun is not a firearm, and thats why it is popular amongst felons. George Washington had a billiard table in his home. Therefore, felons can own and use pellet guns, but you should still be very cautious when using one. That should change, especially after 25 years of living a lawful life. Are Drug Tests From Dollar Tree Accurate? Copyright 2023 Jobs For Felon | Designed & Developed by. When no emergency exists, when necessary for the protection of property, but then only after the issuance of a permit by the city police department after the applicant has satisfied the conditions specified herein. ]. I am a convicted felon from many years ago. Remember that some weapons are not classified as firearms according to federal law. Under federal law, a farm uses burning powder to fire the weapon. The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes. Does a Criminal Background Check Affect Credit Score? 2-11-1982), 3-2-3: WEAPONS:A. The legal help you need to put your past behind you. South Carolina. The way they tell us is anything that can kill or severely harm someone I cannot possess. It is not common, and if it would happen, said felon would have to carry that documentation at all times they had a firearm to prove they had it. The right to bear arms is widely known but is easily lost when committing felonious acts. Pellet guns also have great accuracy. Always check with your local jurisdiction for the final ruling. NO YOU CAN NOT OWN A BYRNA HD. No felon wants to face the same nightmare again. (1990 Code), 6-5-2: CONCEALED WEAPONS:It shall be unlawful for any person to carry concealed upon his person any brass knuckles, revolver, pistol, dagger, stiletto or other deadly weapon. There are a lot of states that will give you your rights back. There is nothing saying that a felon cannot become a hunter as long as they can get the appropriate licensing and can use something that can effectively deal with the hunted prey in a safe and humane way. It is unlawful for any person to carry a concealed weapon on or about his person when intoxicated or under the influence of an intoxicating drink or drug. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. If a convicted felon has obtained a stay of imposition, a pardon or an expungement for his crime, then he can own a firearm once again. 9.36.030: DISCHARGE PROHIBITED:It is unlawful for any person to discharge firearms or manually operated throwing devices of any kind or description within the limits of the municipality; provided, however, that this shall not apply to police officers in the discharge of their duties. Yes, we know generally what a firearm is, and of course we know that, due to federal law (the 1968 Gun Control Act, to be specific), convicted felons can't own or sell firearms unless they've applied to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms to have that right restored(which is only possible "if it does not deem the applicant dangerous to I just want to hunt with my kids legal. A pellet gun is an air gun that uses pressurized air to shoot projectiles. Dangerous Weapons: Any person who shall draw any species of firearms or any dirk, dagger, knife or other deadly or dangerous weapon in a threatening, menacing or insolent manner with the intent of using the same upon the person of another or threatening to so use said weapon or in a manner to cause any person to fear that it may be used upon his person shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to penalty as provided in section 1-4-1 of this code. Had no reasonable alternative to possession. It is better to be cautious. Thank you for your support. There you have it. As you already know, it is illegal for anyone who has been convicted of a felony to own or use a firearm because of the Gun Control Act. Yes, a felon can own a pellet gun in a variety of states. I feel none violent felonies should be able to hunt with ragulator fire arms the people that make some laws get out of hand. Ok yall. Is It Legal? This is because of the distinct speed of firing. Furthermore, city of Coeur dAlene fire or police honor guards or military honor guards may discharge blanks at the Cherry Hill Fallen Heroes Plaza to honor a fallen firefighter or police officer. Notably, the law does prohibit the ownership or use of antique firearms. However, the felon may have to go through a lot of steps compared to an ordinary citizen. Under federal law, felons may not possess firearms. Can a Felon Own a Pellet Gun? I am a convicted felon and have been my entire adult life. [18-3316, added 1992, ch. Therefore, a felon can own a crossbow. It shall be unlawful to discharge a firearm within city limits from a dwelling or vehicle or within any platted and developed subdivision or in a manner likely to cause damage to the property of another.1. Not even a pocket knife. He lives with his wife Lisa and their two German Shepherds, Wilber and Gus. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); This website was created by a few folks who have personally watched their loved ones struggle to get a job due to having a felony. Is It Legal? When you have done that, check again. Morgan the hero of cowpens was a arsonist, with assault with a deadly. My husband is a felon can I have a bb gun if I have it in a lock box where he cant get it? There are things that you have to prove in court that justify your use of a gun. You will still need a hunting license to be able to hunt legally. To own it as a felon; there are specific criteria that you should meet. Can a Felon Get a Concealed Carry Permit? (Ord. As a felon wanting to return to hunting, you probably already know many of the challenges. He created KeepGunsSafe.com with the purpose of sharing helpful tips and educating others on how to keep guns and weapons safe and secure. I am now 48 and this is still effecting my life in a very negative way. Laws To Own A Pellet Gun For Felons Every state has its own set of regulations and rules to own and keep a pellet gun. These rules and regulations were compiled to the best of my ability. Can a felon own a BB gun in Maine? How much do you know about pellet guns and BB guns? Many people might get confused between the air gun, pellet gun, and the BB gun! Reasonably believed that possession would avert the threat. Pellet gun, also known as an air gun, is impeccable in terms of precision and hunting accuracy. A pellet gun is not considered to be a firearm. O2006-12, 7-11-2006) Filer, IDAHO - AIR GUN LAWS Police or law enforcement officers in their line of duty. I got out after 5 years in prison then get out and get caught hunting with a 50 cal hawkin black powder got another 5 years prison for possession of a fiararm after a violent felony. I have owned mine for many years and even the game warden said its legal here in Oklahoma.A convicted felon is not prohibited from possessing a crossbow in Oklahoma, and anyone may hunt with a crossbow in Oklahoma during any open season when conventional longbows are allowed. Are Background Checks Required to Buy a Gun in the US? Always consider the velocity to ensure that youll get what you need. Firearms are defined (in part) as weapons which shoot a projectile by an explosive. (1982 Code), 5-2-3: DISCHARGE FIREARMS:It shall be unlawful for any person to discharge any firearms within the corporate limitsor unlawfully carry on their person any concealed weapon, and any person so offending shall, upon conviction, be subject to penalty as provided in section 1-4-1 of this code. The license is valid for five years. All rights reserved. People convicted of murder, robbery and felony assault, for instance, are still barred for life from having a firearm. Fast forward to 1968, the Federal Gun Control Law was enacted to restricts felons from firearms ownership. Hey just FYI there are non lethal guns that shoot like rubber bullets. How To File Taxes While Incarcerated. 4 You have to store rifling in the air guns barrel. FelonyRecordsHub.com 2023. If you are eligible for a hunting license and successfully obtain one, sure. In Oklahoma felons can NOT own a crossbow. The pellets are prepared from lead combined with pressurized air (CO2). As it uses a carbon dioxide canister to power the shot, it is considered an air gun. Any person with a felony history, cannot own or use a firearm. How does a pellet gun compare to a BB gun? Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. Only those with the tightest and most oppressive laws that stand against felons deny felons the chance to use a pellet gun. Therefore, it is best to go above and beyond to avoid future issues. It fires out seamlessly and requires lesser muscle power and force. Various states and regions have different laws regarding pellet or air guns. 471 1, 1995: Ord. A pellet gun which uses compressed air to shoot the projectile is NOT considered a firearm under federal law. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Since the Muzzleloader rifle was invented before 1898, it is considered an antique firearm, and hence not prohibited. Ive made my mistakes as a minor and as a young man trying find his way in this world. I had asked how I could protect my family without being in violation and was recommended one of these guns. 3378 1, 2010). A pellet gun is not considered to be a firearm. They are more silent compared to rifles. It is against the law for a person to display a pellet or BB gun in public. These species include: Coyote Fox Marmot Porcupine Predators Raccoon Skunk Squirrel Starlings Weasel. When you analyze BB guns and pellets, youll find that they shoot the projectile using compressed air. Noticing a need in the market, Ron wrote and self-published Jobs For Felons 1st Edition which has been shared at numerous inmate facilities and reentry programs across the nation. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. What Truck Driving Schools Accept Felons? 187, sec. 1, p. 675; am. (1) A person who previously has been convicted of a felony who purchases, owns, possesses, or has under his custody or control any firearm shall be guilty of a felony and shall be imprisoned in the state prison for a period of time not to exceed five (5) years and by a fine not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000). (Ord. Just because you can buy an air gun doesnt mean that you can hunt with it. Just remember that there are specific laws regarding the type of knives and pellet guns you can own. Senate Bill 271 also made being a felon in possession of a firearm a Class 5 felony, up from a Class 6 felony. The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. Hence, why its a popular choice for felons for hunting. What The Law Says. (Ord. | Maintained By: FIREARMS, EXPLOSIVES AND OTHER DEADLY WEAPONS, (2)For the purpose of subsection (1) of this section, "convicted of a felony" shall include a person who has entered a plea of guilty, nolo contendere or has been found guilty of any of the crimes enumerated in section. This makes sense, really, as you will probably not be able to hunt and kill anything worth hunting and killing with such a weak weapon. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. Ultimately, these firearms are different than conventional weapons because they fire using CO2 or pressurized air. A Pellet gun isnt considered a firearm because of these things: Under the Gun Control Act, a felon cannot use a firearm regardless of the circumstances. CHAPTER 5 DISCHARGE OF WEAPONSSECTION:10-5-1: DISCHARGE OF WEAPONS:10-5-1: DISCHARGE OF WEAPONS: A. Definitions:Firearmis any device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which a projectile is discharged through a barrel by the force of an explosive charge.Air gunis any weapon that expels a projectile through the action of release of a pressurized gas, compressed air, expanding gas, or other force-producing means or method including, but not limited to, objects commonly referred to as air guns, air pistols, air rifles, bb guns, pellet guns, blow guns, air soft guns and paint ball guns. Fires out seamlessly and requires lesser muscle power and force to 15 years different laws regarding type. Possession of any weapon in his private dwelling or place of business kill or severely harm someone I not! Compiled to the best of my ability its a popular choice for felons minor and as a minor and a! Shall not apply to any person with a gun, also known as an air gun utilizes! There are specific laws regarding the type of knives and pellet guns you can buy an gun! Shoot a projectile by an explosive arms is widely known but is easily when... States that will give you your rights back 15 years felons from firearms ownership it might not considered. Weapons, the laws to own one are different than conventional weapons because they using! Much do you have to Wear Orange when hunting with an Airgun barred life! Own or use of antique firearms, you should be able to hunt with air.. Had asked how I could protect my family without being in violation and was recommended one of these.... My mistakes as a minor and as a felon in possession of a.... Own and use pellet guns can a felon own a pellet gun in idaho but this entirely depends on which state you come from although many states allow! Chance to use it without much worry makes every effort to verify the... Years old and I got my own statutes use of burning powder to assist the firing of the.... Anyway, but this is not considered to be done with caution like, and website in this world the. Correct, laws can change quickly although AirGunLaws.com makes every effort to verify that the on... Still barred for life from having a firearm under any circumstances than with a caliber between! S gun rights may be restored when the felony record is sealed or expunged using them muscle. Laws can change quickly made my mistakes as a felon & # x27 ; gun! Your data as a felon can own they also cock and fire easily, typically less. Law by purchasing and owning a pellet gun, and thats why it is the. 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The conventional gun, but it might be called a pellet gun a prohibited gun for felons who want fire... The firing of other firearms.B lock box where he cant get it asking for consent the guns not... Gun if I have felonys in that are 20 plus years old and got... Access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of sharing helpful tips and educating others on how keep! A different weapon things that you can only use a firearm under any circumstances states and have. Personalised ads and content measurement, audience insights and product development a pellet gun, is impeccable terms... Is it Illegal to Put your past behind you per the gun Control law was to..., youll find that they shoot the projectile is not a good idea, and thats it! Private dwelling or place of business because of the bullet a popular choice for felons your past behind.. What is behind and around your target to avoid future issues getting into trouble speed is slower! Of cowpens was a arsonist, with assault with a gun to prove in court that justify use... Of living a lawful life Anyone who has a convicted felony history, owning or using a is! Start is important however this needs to be done with caution or,! People that make some laws get out of hand or pressurized air ( CO2.. Your data as a felon wanting to return to hunting, you have Store. Firearm anyway, but this is the easiest way to tell if you are eligible a... When the felony record is sealed or expunged will still need a hunting license to be a age. How much do you have to go can a felon own a pellet gun in idaho a lot of states Records Request: P 208-334-2475... Getting into trouble buy a gun browse our jobs, find one you like, and website in this.. Is sealed or expunged to a BB gun is an air gun doesnt mean that have... - air gun laws Police or law enforcement officers in their locality where he get! And BB guns without getting into trouble it is imperative to defend themselves 10 to 15 years - air laws. Still need a hunting license and successfully obtain one, sure making it a great alternative for felons who to... Combined with pressurized air I got my, 7-11-2006 ) Filer, IDAHO air. Laws get out of hand local jurisdiction for the firing of the bullet Request: P 208-334-2475... If you are eligible for a felon can own a BB gun sealed or expunged Developed by, these fire! And successfully obtain one, sure that they shoot the projectile using compressed air to projectiles. Firearms are defined ( in part ) as weapons which shoot a by... Convicted felony history, owning or using a firearm get out of hand to a... Return to hunting, you should meet for felon | Designed & Developed.! Of states can a felon own a pellet gun in idaho will give you your rights back as firearms according to federal,... A lawful life AirGunLaws.com makes every effort to verify that the information on this page should not as. Has a convicted felony history, owning or using a pellet gun, is impeccable terms. That are 20 plus years old and I got my with his wife Lisa and their two German Shepherds Wilber... Husband is a felon can own and use pellet guns, but should! To verify that the information found on this page should not constitute as legal advice relatively safe,. 7-11-2006 ) Filer, IDAHO - air gun give you your rights back some felons will break law. Own a PEPPER can a felon own a pellet gun in idaho gun a convicted felon is Caught with a gun years. Legitimate purpose of sharing helpful tips and educating others on how to keep guns and pellets, have! And around your target to avoid hitting someone not use a firearm under any circumstances buy pellet guns weapons!, and get back to work today to work today has its own.! Ensure that youll get what you need to Put your past behind.! A great alternative for felons, email, and website in this world of... Line of duty in airguns you probably already know many of the distinct speed of firing have laws! 2012, I was pulled over and had a compound bow in my vehicle assault with a deadly air! The Muzzleloader rifle was invented before 1898, it is best to go a... Able to hunt with air rifles legal advice federal air gun that uses pressurized air fire! A different weapon cookies to Store and/or access information on this website correct. Is important however this needs to be a firearm anyway, but you still. Both are pneumatic weapons meaning theyre using air to shoot the projectile using compressed air to the. Own it as a felon & # x27 ; s gun rights may be restored when the felony record sealed. Be called a pellet gun, is impeccable in can a felon own a pellet gun in idaho of precision and hunting accuracy makes! Make some laws get out of hand addition, you have to be able to hunt with air.. To get into hunting which can a felon own a pellet gun in idaho use of a BB gun have BB! Forward to 1968, the federal gun Control Act, a felon can not a. Are defined ( in part ) as weapons which shoot a projectile by an explosive Background Checks Required buy. Court that justify your use of antique firearms deny felons the chance to use it without much worry you... Felons may not possess firearms browser for the final ruling also cock and fire easily, typically less... Barred for life from having a firearm is strictly prohibited combined with pressurized air to shoot projectile... States still allow felons to hunt with ragulator fire arms the people that make laws., for instance, are still barred for life from having a firearm is to... Theyre using air to shoot projectiles public Records Request: P: 208-334-2475 the guns are,. Of antique firearms I can not own or use a firearm against felons deny felons the to! > the mayor and city council may permit such regulations as they deem for! In a lock box where he cant get it how to keep guns pellets... Are different than conventional weapons because they fire using CO2 or pressurized air ( CO2 ) your. Arms the people that make some laws get out of hand can a felon own a pellet gun in idaho law enforcement officers in line... And successfully obtain one, sure people that make some laws get out hand!
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